dynamic elf

My dive instruction was 7 years ago, and I loved my instructor to death; I wish I could remember more than "Beverly, short name that started with a B, vaguely goofy looking." There's an Undersea Divers in Bev., but a lot of things change in 7 years and so I can't guarantee that it's the same place.

If you're planning on getting your open water dives in the tropics, then make double-plus sure that the instructors at the destination can accept your PADI work to certify you. E.g., don't take it for granted that if you take a PADI course up here and they're SSI instructors down there, that it'll all work out.

I know some SSI instructors have bugs up their butts about PADI instruction, but I think the quality of the instruction really depends on the individual instructor, not on the organization. I also think that non-resort instructors are just BETTER. Resort instructors have a tendency to be people with zero or less than zero interest in teaching, and more interest in zooming you off the boat, because they've picked up dive instruction as a way to finance their lifestyle in the tropics. That's a generalization -- I've known some fine resort instructors -- but that doesn't make it an untrue generalization. I think it's that characteristic that gives PADI a bit of a "quickie" rep -- many resorts are PADI rather than SSI.

There are supposed to be places that only acknowledge one certification over the other, but I've never run into it. YMMV.

Oh, and because of all that stuff above, if it turns out you love your pool-diving instructor, seriously consider getting your open-water dives in with that person. First open-water dives can be kind of counter-instinctual, and I'm glad I got mine in with a known quantity, rather than the people who ran the first commercial dive boat I ventured on. Though mine were in June and I had a 7 mil wetsuit, which was pretty claustro already.

From:

It turns out that there are places (http://www.padi.com/english/common/search/dcnr/search.asp?Country=TONG&City=&Name=&CourseType=OW&Submit=Submit) for us to go.

I mean, is there a difference between PADI and SSI? Should I go out of my way to try and get an SSI certification?

From:

My recollection is that an SSI open-water course is more involved than a PADI open-water course; my belief is that more preparation is better when your life depends on it. But I'm having trouble backing that up with info from the PADI and SSI websites; what you might do is ask how much time is spent on lecture, going over the equipment, and practice dives for each style of instruction.

The actual intellectual material should be a snap for you; it's the time spent getting familiar with the equipment and getting used to the experience of submerging yourself that I think extra time is useful for.

From:

. . . and for what it's worth, my instructor was PADI, and I thought he was great.

From:

Things have changed in the last few years. All of the certification agencies are largely the asme. There are a few minor differences between the requirements, but the quality of the instructor(s) and how well you get along with them is way more important.

About 34 years ago the 4 major agencies got together and came up with a universal referral program. You won't have a problem getting your OW dives done anywhere in the world as part of the universal referral program.

From:

That's supposed to be 3-4 years ago, not 34. :)

From:

Actually, that's precisely how I read it. Oops!

From:

ivorjawa.livejournal.com

I got certified through United Divers (http://www.uniteddivers.com/) in Somerville. I enjoyed them quite a lot. Their training facility is in Providence, and it's a two week course. First weekend you do the classroom and pool work on Saturday and Sunday, the next weekend you do the checkout dives on Saturday and Sunday.

But -- I don't think you're going to find anyone who's doing checkout dives this time of year in New England, and you need the open water checkout dives for your certification. You have to go to the Caribbean this time of year for that sort of thing.

(I really wish I'd done more than get my certification -- but the partner I was supposed to dive with flaked. I should take a refresher class.)

From:

my Mom and Barry both used United Divers, and I've heard nary a bad word about them -- Mom and I also took a dive trip with them once, which was a ton of fun. They're SSI, btw, and part of my above "be careful" comment is because Barry did the "train up here, open water down there" bit and it nearly snagged on the SSI/PADI switch.

It completely escaped my mind somehow that it's BUTT COLD up here right now. How, I can't imagine. My brain must be frozen.

From:

It IS butt-cold.

From:

We're planning to go to Tonga in February, and do the open-water dives there.

Thanks for the recommendation! I'll call them.

From:

schlafmanko.livejournal.com

Yay, diving in Tonga! It's too bad that that doing your checkout dives around Boston won't work, though. It sounds like there's some pretty decent diving there, especially around Cape Ann, and it's easier to take advantage of the local diving if you've already been there during training. A lot of people around here go to the tropics to get certified, and somehow they never realize that they don't need to go on vacation to dive, or else they're unhappy with the transition to colder, murkier water, or who knows what. But maybe I can just make sure that you know you can dive locally in the summer. Yeah, I think that's what I'll do.

From:

If it works out in Tonga, I'm *really* hoping to do some diving this summer around here. Cape Ann, you say?

From:

starphire.livejournal.com

Oh, yeah! I did my instruction at the Y, which had (has?) its own certification program. The instructors were great (this was years ago, though, I don't know if they're still doing it) - they also owned a dive shop in Malden, and organized trips to Bonaire every year.
The head instructor had learned to dive WITH Jacques Cousteau in the EARLY days of the "aqualung", so he was full of great stories.
Anyway, they got special permission for us to do our open-water dives in a little cove on Cape Ann which is normally off-limits to divers. It's a lobster nursery there in that cove, and in the summer we were immersed in water that was chock full of tiny transparent lobsters and crab larvae. The water was fairly clear for this area - visibility was 10-15 feet. You have to go after a few days of clear and calm weather, otherwise the visibility is likely to suck ass.
The thing with the "Y" dive certification was it was the least expensive program around, yet with the most experienced teaching staff (and they have good pools, of course). But every time I went diving in the tropics, they would look at my card and say "I didn't know the YMCA certified divers" and sometimes they hemmed and hawed about whether they could accept it. But I would insist, and they always relented. Nice to know there's more reciprocal courtesy these days.

I'd love to go diving in Tonga.

From:

jacflash.livejournal.com

I used Undersea Divers for my PADI Open Water cert in 1997 or thereabouts, shortly before D and I went to Key Largo. They hooked me up with a PADI instructor at a big dive shop in the Keys who took me through the open water tests and got me certified. I liked them. I've heard good things about United Divers, too... in fact, I would have used them but the scheduling didn't work for me.

From:

I don't have a place to recommend but I do have some suggestions:

1. Don't take a crash course. What you learn will stick better if you take the once or twice a week classes rather than cramming it all into a few days. Since diving is dangerous and doing the wrong thing can kill you, it's very good to learn well.

2. Consider doing your open water someplace interesting and warm. I trained in Chicago where all open water courses are in cold, boring, generally cloudy water. So I did my open water dives in the Caribbean and enjoyed it immensely. Keep in mind that you have a window after your courses to do your open water (6 months??).

3. There's no strong reason to go out of your way to get SSI. IMO how well you learn is what matters most. I go PADI because that's what was offered through my grad school.

4. If you stick with it, consider getting a dive calculator. They're not cheap but they do wonders to extend your time underwater. The charts used to calculate how long you can stay underwater are simplistic; most significantly they assume that you spend all your time at your deepest point. If you go to 80 feet (deep!) for 30 seconds then spend 30 minutes at 30 feet (shallow), the chart assumed you spent all 30.5 minutes at 80 feet - if that were true you'd be dead. Dive calculators look like fancy electronic watches; they sense how deep you are and for how long, then tell you how long you can stay underwater without getting the bends. Does wonders to allow you stay underwater longer, more safely. They make excellent Christmas/Birthday gift list items.

Have fun! I love diving, taking underwater photos, hanging out a foot above a coral and seeing what moves, floating midwater on my back looking up through the sea, ... all of it.

From:

totally seconded on the "get a dive computer" thing. Sometimes you can rent them (but don't count on it). It'll extend your bottom time OVERALL by as much as 50% -- the people using tables on a dive boat ALWAYS come up first. And it makes financial sense if you compare diving mintues added vs. the total cost of the experience.

From:

Since I don't dive often I always go with a dive master. Ze plans the dives and the locations, I follow along and enjoy the trip. After each dive I do the chart calculations and fill in my dive log. It was when the calculations for a certain dive showed that I should be DEAD (a minute or two at 100 feet, then 15-20 min at 33 feet) that I decided to buy a calculator. Now my usual limiting factor is cold, not oxygen or the bends.

From:

Yeah. Even in the tropics, if you're doing multiple dives, at least a 3mil long wetsuit is a really good idea (and in my experience, it's hard to rent these. . . most of what's on the racks to rent tends to be shorties.) Failing that, a diveskin will help some, and help with sunburn too.

My last dive trip I got creeping hypothermia even with the 3 mil and a diveskin; by the end of the trip I was convinced I'd never be warm again.

Molly, I have a good 3 mil wetsuit that might fit you which you could borrow if you like.

From:

I have a good 3 mil wetsuit that might fit you which you could borrow if you like.

Oooh. Yeah. So, I'm about 5'8" and about a size 12, give or take -- is it likely to fit? I'd love to try.

From:

that sounds about right -- I thought you might be a bit thin for it, but it sounds like it should fit. The only thing is it's a custom long torso, which may be off for you (but on the other hand, it's a woman's suit, which may be a good trade-off in the general fit issue.)

From:

Agreed, dive computers are important for anything but single dives at shallow depth or deep dives with a square profile. For anything else (multiple dives in a day, dives at constantly changing depth, etc.), you'll get much more bottom time with a computer. However, always remember that the best computer is the one between your ears. Understand the tables, and always check what your computer predicts for the time allowed at your intended depth before you hit the water.

schlafmanko and I have bought full diving rigs over the last year and a half, and we're very happy with them. If you start thinking about diving locally and want recommendations for gear purchases, let me know. You can save a lot of money on gear if you look around, do research and only buy things once. :)

I've also found lots and lots of good information at Scubaboard http://www.scubaboard.com/ Like any web forum, you have to read critically, but it's got a nice community and the advice we've gotten there is good.

Finally, getting certified at a place will make you part of their community, so pick a place that you like and that's close to home. Your Local Dive Store (LDS) will be your gateway to the hobby for a while, and you'll want a place you can trust.

From:

Your Local Dive Store (LDS) will be your gateway to the hobby for a while, and you'll want a place you can trust.

Hmm. This sounds more than a bit like biking. :)

From:

dda.livejournal.com

I never got my dive cert despite doing everything including the open water dive (in New England. In a poorly fitting wet suit. It wasn't just my butt that got cold!) because I was too young at the time. And being an old person, I took the course when they still had double-stage regulators and we strapped lead weights around our waists. :-)

But I would strongly agree that taking a longer course is better. Heaven forbid, but there might be times when how you react to something could kill you; you want your instinct to be doing the right thing then!

As much as it might detract from the experience, the attitude of "I'm in an environment that can kill me if I screw up" is a good one to have.

From:

that attitude slows you down, and going slow generally enhances the experience.

From:

"I'm in an environment that can kill me if I screw up"

I needed to hear that! I can keep that in mind.

From:

twoeleven.livejournal.com

i tend to think that idea leads to safety fatigue. practically any interesting environment (hanging upside down from silk ropes, say :) ) can kill you if you screw up badly enuf. fixating on the getting killed part leads to (imho) unnecessary stress.

i think you'll get further with "i need to respect my environment, know what's going on around me, and know what i'm doing and why.". while i've never dived deeper than the bottom of a swimming pool, it's served me well in the air, on the firing range, and in the lab. ymmv. :)

From:

I'm -- I think we're talking about the same level of worry, here. :) "This could kill me if I screw up" means, to me, "I should be careful and respect my environment and not be a jackass about this".

From:

dda.livejournal.com

i think you'll get further with "i need to respect my environment, know what's going on around me, and know what i'm doing and why."

I definitely agree; to me, part of respecting my environment is being aware of how quickly that environment can turn fatal. While I haven't done much flying (other than in video games), I suspect that the fact you cannot stop the plane and get out changes the way you think about things like fuel, for example.

I've spent time on a firing range and I've spent time deeper than most swimming pools; I think it is usually all about good habits and clear understanding of the tolerances of the environment. To quote Nicholas Cage in The Rock, "As soon as you stop respecting this stuff, it will kill you."

From:

I suspect that rather than actually disagreeing with the level of caution

dda and I recommend, you're simply underestimating the utter stupidity with which some people scuba dive.

I've known alleged DIVEMASTERS to go down on an empty tank.

From:

twoeleven.livejournal.com

I've known alleged DIVEMASTERS to go down on an empty tank.
that's an impressive level of autodarwinization potential. :/

people (men especially) do incredibly stupid things in the air; taking off without enuf gas to reach the destination is still one of the leading causes of light plane boo-boos.

i think stupid instructor syndrome may be universal. i've done a number of acrobatic manuvers with flight instructors that i've later found out to be forbidden by the airplane maker, or were done at too low an altitude to permit safe recovery.

From:

Really? Ugh. That's dumb beyond belief. Especially since it's usually the dive master who steers the boat for a boat dive.

Just amazing. Well, let's hope that these alleged dive masters hadn't contributed to the gene pool before they killed themselves.

From:

the attitude of "I'm in an environment that can kill me if I screw up" is a good one to have.

An excellent one, even a necessary one. Diving can kill you; being aware of that will make you a better diver. As usual, it's all about known risks and prep. The first time my dive instructor cut off my oxygen I freaked - I hadn't expected it to be so sudden! After that I knew what to expect and coping was much easier.

For me, being aware that diving can kill me leads me to be very careful. I check my oxygen levels every few minutes - no master yet has caught me not knowing about how much I have left. It leads me to keep an eye on my diving partners, including the dive master, and to check how much oxygen they have left. One memorable dive I, out of habit, checked my dive master's oxygen level. I don't think anyone had done that to him in years. Caution leads me to keep an eye on my watch, my dive calculator, my surroundings.

The best part? Being careful makes diving much more enjoyable and you get much more time underwater.

From:

taking underwater photos

Unsurprisingly, I care strongly about this. Do you have any advice? It seems that an underwater housing for my Rebel would cost $1200, which I'm not exactly prepared to spend right now... but...

From:

The Canon cases are quite nice for the money. If the only camera you have is the rebel and you want to shoot with that, you're pretty much stuck with $1200 for an Ikelite case plus probably another $1000 for strobes and lighting. Lighting is critical for anything but macro shots.

If you're not ready for that kind of investment, I'd go with a cheap point-and-shoot canon in a canon case. The canon cases are about $150, and you can probably find an older PS camera for less than $300. I have an S500, which doesn't meet the cheap catergory, but it takes great pictures, and it's small enough that I can take it with me everywhere abovewater, which the G2 is a little big for. I took it to Hawaii this summer and you can see the best of the resulting pictures here: http://www.cabeen.org/gallery/SnorkelDiveHI2004 As you can probably see, the macro shots look great, but the distance ones are heavy in the blue. Underwater your eye compensates for the filtering out of the red light, but the camera has a harder time doing that.

From:

I have an S400. Canon makes cases? A Canon case for $150 doesn't sound like a bad plan. I also have an offer from a friend to borrow his G1 for a couple of weeks in exchange for my S400. I'm taking the Rebel for abovewater shots, at least. :)

But so many of those shots are so BLUE... is that with automatic white balancing?

From:

Yep. Here's the one for the S400: http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=30-999-277&depa=0

That's with full automatic. When you're underwater with a camera for the first time, there's so much to see and deal with, playing with camera features is pretty far down on the list.

The main reason (and they'll go over this in the OW class too) is that water filters out much of the color red from the water. Even at 30 feet, much of the red is gone, and by 80 or 90 feet, you're losing orange and more. From what I understand, the camera can't easily compensate. You can do some color adjustment in photoshop, but the standard way to deal with the problem is to bring tons of light with you, thus the expensive strobes. Since with the S400, you're relying on the wimpy built-in flash, it can't penetrate more than 5 feet or so at the most. However, it's a good way to get used to the issues in UW photo and to see how you like it without a huge investment.

If you do play with UW photography, it's very important to be incredibly anal about the seals. The case are well designed (I took the S500 to 130' no problem), but even a single hair lying across the seal can flood the entire case at depth. If you carefully lubricate the seal with a small amount of the enclosed lube and make sure it's completely clean of hair and sand and the like, you'll be fine. It's fun stuff.

From:

The macro shots do look great, though.

From:

You can rent good cameras at many dive shops.

Another neat thing about underwater photography is that to take good pix you have to be very still, which means you have to be a very efficient swimmer, which means using less oxygen, which means more time underwater per tank of air.

From: