Although what I would call the top one, actually, is something more like "one of those damn shirts I would be wearing to work all the time except that they only build them for tiny-breasted women so I get to choose between having a shirt that is terrifically ill-fitted and slightly obscene up top or one that is tentlike and unflattering on the bottom, dammit."
Yup. That's definitely how I end up wearing them. I always wonder if I am committing some sort of horrible fashion faux pas, but I guess it would be worse to just have massive boob spillage.
There are companies now that sell button-front shirts by bra size, which is supposed to take into account the fit issue, because you can specify your shape. I have yet to try them, but I'm curious.
The only one I remember off the top of my head is a company called Rebecca & Drew. There may be another one, but I think this was the one I originally saw. They can be pricey -- around $200 -- but hey, if it fits, you can wear it forever. Their web site is here:
http://www.rebeccaanddrew.com/
Also try Anne Fontaine -- while they do not go by bra size, they are known for their forgiving fit up top and their sizing (much more shapely.) I think they're in the same price range as Rebecca & Drew but it might be worth checking out. They do mostly white blouses, with different styles, and they do different colors and patterns every season. They have a great wrap top.
Yikes. that would be...about 10 times what I normally spend on a shirt ;). Even the clearance is expensive. Which is too bad as they are pretty and I think they'd fit...(er, think they'd fit when I'm not pregnant, anyway ;).
I saw them! I had never heard of them before encountering one of them in real life in Oxford when one of the other bridesmaids dragged me to it. (She's 34DDD or something like that. It's her holy land.) They did have nice clothes.
Technically a "button-down" refers to the COLLAR, if the collar is button-down rather than spread tab. It really has nothing to do with the fact that it buttons down the front of your shirt. Or so I was always told, I could be running on misinformation.
The American Heritage Dictionary (http://www.bartleby.com/61/41/B0584100.html) agrees with you :) It's certainly news to me - I always thought it had to do with the buttons down the front.
The "button-down" collar distinction comes from a time when all "shirts" were assumed to have buttons down the front in the first place. Nowadays there are many varieties of pullovers that are also referred to as shirts, so button-down has taken on a second meaning.
The only reason I can think of to button a collar would be to constrain a tie, which women usually don't wear. Is there a purpose to the button-down collar for women, or is it merely an uncomfortable fasion?
I would have called the first one a blouse, not a shirt, but now that I think about it, I mostly only ever hear my mother use the word. Is it Commonwealth usage?
I can't get away from the collar button meaning of "button-down", but then what should those other shirts be called??
Anyway, at some point, I decided to call any shirt that buttons up the front a "button-up" shirt (contrast: pull-over). So button-downs are shirts with buttons holding the collar tabs down; all the rest are button-ups. (And yes, button-downs are a usually all button-ups, too, but that seems to be ok.)
I call 'em "dress shirts", for both men and women. (I haven't heard "blouse" used much since I was a kid.) Button-downs are the kind that button at the collar.
Truth be told, when I'm talking to someone I haven't yet converted to the "button up" terminology (read: everyone), I say Oxfords, too.
Although, apparently, that's sometimes a bit of a misnomer, as technically "Oxford" refers to a particular type of cloth, and not all shirts I'd call Oxfords are made with Oxford cloth...
Most women's "man-tailored" shirts (good call, bemocked) do not have the button down option, for precisely the reason below. Many "man-tailored" garments for women do have various, now vestigial components that did have an original purpose, but have since become design elements soley indicating a sense of masculinity. Lapels on women's jackets, for instance, are no longer intended to be buttoned across the chest in case of inclement weather. Welt pockets are decorative rather than functional, etc. etc. So no purpose other than style, no.
I call the men's shirts button-downs and the women's shirt a blouse, but I have now learned something new today (about the collar buttons rather than the buttons down the front of the shirt.)
(without reading the comments already posts first), I missed the difference that would distinguish between the shirts, I do see that there is a mizture of male/female tailoring.
I actually would say they were all "man tailored" shirts, instead of using the term button-down shirt.
As other have pointed out, the middle one is a button-down. It is my undertsanding that a button-up shirt is one that has a row of buttons up the plaquard, but a button-down shirt has a collar that is secured by buttons (either through the collar as portraited, or through loops in the back of the collar). No. I'm not gay. No. I don't sew or crochet in the dim corners of my basement. Yes, I am a consultant and have to understand the client's dress codes.
I haven't seen or heard from you since Cape May. I hope all is well.
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moominmolly) wrote2006-10-22 09:47 am
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(Anonymous) 2006-10-22 02:00 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
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I'd never even known the distinction existed before this morning. I figured shirts with button-down collars were a subset of button-down shirts.
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Although what I would call the top one, actually, is something more like "one of those damn shirts I would be wearing to work all the time except that they only build them for tiny-breasted women so I get to choose between having a shirt that is terrifically ill-fitted and slightly obscene up top or one that is tentlike and unflattering on the bottom, dammit."
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Yesyesyesyesyesyes!!!!!!!!!!
And they would be so great if they fit!
I have a few I wear with something underneath and the top buttons undone.
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http://www.rebeccaanddrew.com/
Also try Anne Fontaine -- while they do not go by bra size, they are known for their forgiving fit up top and their sizing (much more shapely.) I think they're in the same price range as Rebecca & Drew but it might be worth checking out. They do mostly white blouses, with different styles, and they do different colors and patterns every season. They have a great wrap top.
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dusting off the degree...
I feel like I should have slides for this...
Re: dusting off the degree...
Re: dusting off the degree...
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I heard blouse a lot more in my childhood than I do now. Slacks are another term that I rarely hear.
I suspect there's less of a need to use different words for men's fashion and women's fashion.
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Button UPs
Anyway, at some point, I decided to call any shirt that buttons up the front a "button-up" shirt (contrast: pull-over). So button-downs are shirts with buttons holding the collar tabs down; all the rest are button-ups. (And yes, button-downs are a usually all button-ups, too, but that seems to be ok.)
Re: Button UPs
Re: Button UPs
Re: Button UPs
Although, apparently, that's sometimes a bit of a misnomer, as technically "Oxford" refers to a particular type of cloth, and not all shirts I'd call Oxfords are made with Oxford cloth...
Re: dusting off the degree...
Heheheh, it's so good to revisit my thesis.
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but I have now learned something new today (about the collar buttons
rather than the buttons down the front of the shirt.)
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I actually would say they were all "man tailored" shirts, instead of using the term button-down shirt.
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I haven't seen or heard from you since Cape May. I hope all is well.